Curse

floppinghog · Aug 06, 2006, 03:15 PM // 15:15

if guns ever appear in guild wars, gg, guns FTL.

they dont belong

BrotherGilburt · Aug 06, 2006, 03:52 PM // 15:52

You put alot of thought in this, but no. I don't think guns should ever be added to Guildwars.

/notsigned

Brother Gilburt

BhaalSpawn · Aug 06, 2006, 11:40 PM // 23:40

Well to be honest I must give this character a 50/50

1. The idea of musketeer is wonderful they are the second most notable historic warriors in the world today(next to the samurai of course).

2. I grew up watching the 3 musketeers(Disney movie I think it's better than Iron Mask overall - leonardo dicaprio is a bad actor :P) and would love to play a Musketeer character.

3. Yes it is true that hand guns are a bit out of guild wars current progression. In China black powder was found by archiologists in somewhere around 800 B.c(possibly later), though cannons were not put in to use until 225 AD in the mid 6 Dynasties period and handguns were not found to be any older than 500 AD that's 275 years difference at best and even then they were little better than small metal things that blow your own hands off.

4. Such a character may have trouble blending into the guild wars universe.
Picture this: a Musketeer up against a great big wurm; what's he going to do?
stab it.. nope rapiers are too light for that. Shoot him... Ya right might as well throw pebbles at it. Furthermore what type of role do you see this character playing in PvP.

5. Of course there is one obvious answer to your problems is staring you right in the face... Magic. Guild Wars is a land that has pulled the stooper out on that whole magic thing so why not use that to your advantage. Run the musket as a sort of "magic rifle" maybe, playing off the fire magic attribute (with it's own skill set). That way the character would fit in to the more fantasy genre created by guild wars. That and I've been looking for better ways to incorperate magic into melee (W/E doesn't work and E/W keeps getting laughed at in pve).

6. I love the way you intend to play off stances the way a mesmer plays off hexes, simply genius. Using exhaustion as an attack is also well thought out and quiet detrimental to casters. However, I must admit some of you skills are rather unbalanced (bonus damage, bleeding, deep wound and blind all in the same shot), impossible to do without surgery(carpel tunnel) or just plain suicidal (go out with a bang).
*still haven't managed to read through all of the skills yet

7. Minor points of interest:
- In the later part of their service to France musketeers had a chose between rapiers or foils (pretty much a big aluminium needle with a hilt, think Zorro)
- Do you have a rune design yet?

Meh I had more, but I grow tired of typing I'll post this for now and finish the rest later.

unholy guardian · Aug 07, 2006, 04:22 AM // 04:22

rune design... er no sorry

one thing though is did you read over the "backfire" the muskets can do, it kinda hurts the musketeer and it's an added balance

I did have a couple more skills, thing was though they were kinda pileling up and it seems i made even more than what normally would be, so eh yeah :P

couple things

1 true
2

3 true again
4 Assassin's and their little daggers :\
5 hmm magic guns be nice lol
6 some are just cool names, like the paragon has. Others simply have certain abilities that makes the musket useful
7 foils are cool too.

i hope you enjoyed it a lot

ogami_ito · Aug 07, 2006, 05:44 AM // 05:44

OK. I didn't read through everything. Not too interested in ALL the details. But I like this alot. I have some ideas though:

First, a general comment:

The theme of the chapter can be like Pirates! Or something like that. Swashbuckling action.

Rapier skill should be “Fencing”, or possibly “Blade Combat”. The idea being that multiple weapons besides “Rapiers” should fit the bill. Rapiers are court weapons. They are useless on the battlefield. They are OK against some armored opponents because they are so fast, but they are fragile. They are great against non-armored opponents wielding larger slower weapons. Rapiers are really a personal defense weapon developed in a time when guns>armor. Sabers, on the other hand, are real battlefield weapons. Come to think of it, in the world of GW, magic > armor, so light bladed weapons should become more common. My point is, this category can have sabers, rapiers, epees, etc.

I also think that instead of calling it Defensive skills, you can call it Swashbuckling. The idea is that this is where your “bag of tricks” is.

In game-terms, I think a more interesting idea would be to make Fencing weapons one-handed, and they get certain skill-synergies when used with specific off-hand weapons, and certain skill options when nothing is carried in the off-hand. For example:
Saber: Damage = 12-18. speed = 1.3sec. If no weapon in off-hand, has 20% sundering

You can have 2 types of off-hand items: cross-bows (or pistols) and blades. Each have not many passive attributes. Carrying a cross-bow enables certain devastating, but high-recharge times ranged combat skills. Carrying a blade enables more counter-attack skills. ***carrying a blade is Florentine fighting-style***

I think there should be some skills taken from fencing.

Fencing Skills (unless noted, all the below require a Fencing weapon in main hand)

“Point In-Line Thrust”: (5e, 1sec cast, 10sec recharge) Cannot have an off-hand weapon for this skill. Target attacking foe is struck with a critical hit and is interrupted. If this attack is blocked or evaded, player is off-balance and takes 2X damage for 4…2 seconds. (This is extending the point of your weapon into an on-coming attack…usually a charging attack. If the point gets “knocked out of line,” the fencer is left wide open for attack)

Reprise (5e, 4r) If this attacked is blocked, you make two more attacks

Invitation (5e, 5r) Cannot carry off-hand weapon for this skill. If you block target opponent’s next attack, You gain 5-8 energy and attack the opponent once

Balestra Lunge (15e, 10r) This attack deals +5-30 damage and for 2 you seconds move 50% faster. . If this attack fails to hit, player is off-balance and takes 2X damage for 4…2 seconds.
Wrist Slash: (10e, 8r) Fencing Attack. Must hold a blade in off-hand. If this attack hits, attacking opponent cannot attack for 4 seconds.

Throat Slash ( 10e, 15r) Fencing Attack. Must hold a blade in off-hand. If this attack hits, target is hit in the head location. This attack has 40% armor penetration.

Deadly Riposte (exactly same as warrior skill, but requires a blade in off-hand)

unholy guardian · Aug 07, 2006, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Well i think actionjack already has a fencing class, this was just a different idea. Probably failed from the start due to guns, although not making sense if it was a crossbow probably would have been liked a bit more than a gun.

I like your ideas, but they seem kinda complicated... i bet a lot of bugs could arise from that :\

Nice ideas but it seems the offhand weapons may never exist, off hands just always seem like a sheild or thing to give energy for a caster.

ogami_ito · Aug 07, 2006, 04:40 PM // 16:40

I didn't see action jack. I dont think its complicated. Almost every skill in the game checks to see what is held in the hands. So no bugs there. the only issue is if passive non-skill abilities can be added depending on off-hand. I don't see a reason why that would be difficult.

master koa · Aug 07, 2006, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Rename it the "Shouteskeer" and you have a champion.
Anyways,
/signed

leon fire storm · Aug 07, 2006, 10:58 PM // 22:58

sry guns dont belong in guild wars i mean common its kinda a medevil game

unholy guardian · Aug 08, 2006, 12:53 AM // 00:53

to tell you the truth the fan art for factions look like the city is actually one giant robot :s, i should have just made it a big giant crossbow instead of a musket, but i doubt ill change it now >->

ogami_ito · Aug 08, 2006, 01:15 AM // 01:15

I think that the technology level of the Kurziks and Canthans would be high enough to produce guns. I mean, the Kurziks can make organic mechs. The Canthans have a massive, skyrise city. And they all have fireworks. So guns would *fit* in the world. On the other hand, who needs guns when you have magic-users going around with a lot more powerfull abilities?

In any event, guns are not needed. The idea for the class is a Musketeer, and the defining characteristic of that is not guns, but light-armored swashbucling sword-play and "all for one and one for all". You can adopt parts of the Musketeers' world and mix it with some Carabian pirates type stuff very eaislly...and still have all that exist in a pre-technological (or maybe post technological) setting.

actionjack · Aug 08, 2006, 01:21 AM // 01:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ogami_ito

I didn't see action jack. I dont think its complicated. Almost every skill in the game checks to see what is held in the hands. So no bugs there. the only issue is if passive non-skill abilities can be added depending on off-hand. I don't see a reason why that would be difficult.

Can you see me now?

Sleeper Service · Aug 08, 2006, 01:52 AM // 01:52

lol pirates. Bing the musketeers out for the Revolutionary France chapter! (there is an invasion of sentinent cheese making all the pesants go crazy and start eating all the frogs so the wise exiled Lions Arch Tree Frog* asks you to help)

*hes actually the King who was transformed by a evil demonic grape in revenge for having fermented his followers to make w(h)ine.

edit* for sure they can make muskets in GW...mobile turtle cannon altillery sounds a lot harder to do.

unholy guardian · Aug 08, 2006, 02:29 PM // 14:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sleeper Service

lol pirates. Bing the musketeers out for the Revolutionary France chapter! (there is an invasion of sentinent cheese making all the pesants go crazy and start eating all the frogs so the wise exiled Lions Arch Tree Frog* asks you to help)

*hes actually the King who was transformed by a evil demonic grape in revenge for having fermented his followers to make w(h)ine.

edit* for sure they can make muskets in GW...mobile turtle cannon altillery sounds a lot harder to do.

that's true... giant cannon turtles. Besides you could always call it dwarfen enchanted gun powder stolen from the stone summit if you wanted some advanced tie in somewhere

jimmyboveto · Aug 08, 2006, 03:32 PM // 15:32

this would be soooooo cool, u know wat would be even cooler? if he could have laser rifle and light sabre(just like luke) w00t, that would be awesome, lol.

unholy guardian · Aug 08, 2006, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyboveto

this would be soooooo cool, u know wat would be even cooler? if he could have laser rifle and light sabre(just like luke) w00t, that would be awesome, lol.

err my hope is that your are sarcastic, except for the part of you thinking it is cool of course lol

Knight Othin Of War · Aug 08, 2006, 06:27 PM // 18:27

i don't like the idea, i prefer the game to have a medieval feel to it.
/NOT Signed

Knight of Balthazer · Aug 08, 2006, 08:07 PM // 20:07

the idea of noobs running around yelling: YES!!!!1! i gots a gun BOOM!
makes me laugh....
but srry guildwars and guns = no

Sli Ander · Aug 08, 2006, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Guns would certainly fit, imo, because of the artillery and whatnot. it would show that the GW world is actually moving forward, not stuck in a certain level of technology.
On topic: A very well balanced class(though I didn't read all the skills). Its sorta like the city boy version of a ranger, something to fill the gap between rangers and warriors. And to whoever it was that said a rapier couldn't block a big broadsword: of course not. It would break the sword probably. But thats why they parry more than the block, it doesn't take as much brute strength.

BhaalSpawn · Aug 09, 2006, 06:16 AM // 06:16

I said I'd finish my post and I aim to keep that promise.
So lets see how high I can count shall we.

8. Assassins would most likely climb the worm (as only ninja can), drop down it's throat cut it up from the inside and shadow step out. However the way some assassins are played the character would most likely get stuck on the teeth, but that's neither here nor there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight of Balthazer

the idea of noobs running around yelling: YES!!!!1! i gots a gun BOOM!
makes me laugh....
but srry guildwars and guns = no

9. Though not put as elquently as some would like the Knight makes a valid point. I can already see visions of some what less than mature characters running around yelling: "Woot look at me I got a BOOMSTICK", this I fear would overall damage the outlook on the character; which nobody wants to have happen.(Evil Dead was such a bad movie)

10. Crossbows, I overlooked this in my last post partly due to time periods and the fact that I just got through a translation of Carl Maria von Weber's 1821 opera The Free Shooter and was enchanted by the idea of the Magic Bullet. (surpisingly random reference) Overall the crossbow is roughly what you are after slower than a bow, shorter range, but more damage. That, and it's the first technological step on the path of the gun, coming after the bow.
Use of such a weapon would reduce the effects of guns on guild wars and still relate the desired effect, the real major problem is the musket in Musketeer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sli Ander

Guns would certainly fit, imo, because of the artillery and whatnot. it would show that the GW world is actually moving forward, not stuck in a certain level of technology.
On topic: A very well balanced class(though I didn't read all the skills). Its sorta like the city boy version of a ranger, something to fill the gap between rangers and warriors. And to whoever it was that said a rapier couldn't block a big broadsword: of course not. It would break the sword probably. But thats why they parry more than the block, it doesn't take as much brute strength.

11. Well put as always Sli, which leads to the interesting idea of creating skills that base off of a new parry mode of deflection. Almost like a bonus counter attack or weak point attack to make it more worthwile to attack with the sword (rapier, foil, sabre, etc.) than the gun/bolt launcher. Drawing more on the essance of the Musketeer as the honor bound swordsman than the gun toting, trigger happy lunatics.

12. Possiblities for rune symbol
-Three sword salute (froms a triangle)
-The Fleur De Li (if the french would let us borrow it that is)
-Whatever you want (because it's your character)

13. We can all see how much work you put into this character, which is outstanding. For this I applaud you and your effort in doing something I cannot, bravo. I hope your build, or at least a version of it, gets utalized in an up and coming guild wars addition.

14. Because I didn't want to end this post with 13. (that would be unlucky)

Now I am tired and must sleep, and will continue to check for updates on this character, thank you.